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DIFF podcast: The pace of diversity and inclusion initiatives can feel slow – Golunska

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  • 08/03/2022
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DIFF podcast: The pace of diversity and inclusion initiatives can feel slow – Golunska
The pace at which progress is made within diversity and inclusion initiatives can often make organisations feel like little has been achieved, Michelle Golunksa, chief executive of Sesame Bankhall Group (SBG) has said.

 

Speaking on the Mortgage Solutions Diversity and Inclusion Financial Forum (DIFF) podcast, she discussed how the business worked on addressing these concerns. 

She said: “One of the challenges as a CEO, and maybe from a leadership team, is you want to go really fast with this, but you can’t. You have to embed it. It has to organically work.  

“Sometimes the pace of it feels like you’re not acheiving as much as you want to but that’s because it’s really important to understand how people are feeling and address your actions into those areas.” 

Golunksa was first motivated to promote diversity and inclusion following the death of George Floyd and the subsequent protests in 2020. She said it made her realise that she had “little experience” of the challenges faced by people of colour in the UK. 

She got in touch with Richard Goppy, director of membership at Paradigm Mortgages who connected her with people with lived experiences. 

It was through this that she met Frank Starling, chief executive of Variety Pack – a firm which helps organisations to create inclusive cultures. 

SBG then created an employee survey where it collected data on the demographics of employees including age, gender and disability.  

The aim of this was to educate, recognise bias and look at actions to mitigate it and be transparent in communicating these initiatives. 

Starling said: “It was good that SBG asked difficult questions and did a deep dive into the data.” 

Some of the findings included 75 per cent of employees saying SBG was an inclusive place to work, 75 per cent agreeing that they were able to bring their whole selves to work and 66 per cent feeling they could voice opinions without fear of negative consequences. 

Golunska said: “Whilst they’re broadly above the majority of people feel they can, that’s still a way to go to really be where we aim to be.” 

She said she had a target of getting these responses to 90 per cent as she wanted to create a work experience where people felt they could be themselves. 

 

Inclusive of everyone 

When asked if Golunksa included the opinions of “over-represented” members of staff as part of the data collection, she said the last thing she wanted to do was exclude anyone. 

Starling added: “I would always define diversity as everyone. You may be under-represented in a particular organisation but sometimes we base diversity on what we consider to be privileged or [those who are] over-represented by [their] race or gender.  

“But it could also be under-represented by mental health or neurodiversity or disability.” 

“It was always about including everyone to amplify everybody’s voices but at the same time, adding a layer of intersectionality,” he added. 

Intersectionality is the understanding that people can face numerous and unique forms of discrimination and oppression. 

 

Outcomes and learnings 

Golunksa said one of the things she realised from the data is that SBG sometimes “fell into the trap” of not being diverse in its hiring practices by encouraging and rewarding employees for referring friends to the business. 

“We were positively promoting those and remunerating on those as well. Actually, what we found was we were fishing in the same pond, so we kept getting the same type of people.  

“To have a diverse workforce you need to look more broadly than that.” 

Other points in the survey included ‘I’ve witnessed bullying, harassment or discrimination in the last 12 months’ to which 92 per cent said no.  

However, when asked ‘how often do you feel you’ve experienced non inclusive or micro behaviour from people in SBG’, 60 per cent said never, 27 per cent said yes, on a frequency of weekly to annually and 13 per cent didn’t reply. 

Golunksa said this was shocking as while the majority had not seen extreme forms of discriminatory behaviour “40 per cent of people either aren’t prepared to say or have said that they have experienced non-inclusive or micro behaviours”. 

Micro behaviours – or microaggressions – are subtle, covert words or actions that contribute to negative or discriminatory attitudes towards people from minority groups either intentionally or unknowingly. 

Golunksa also noted that of the 70 per cent who filled out the company’s annual survey, 20 per cent fewer completed the diversity and inclusion section. 

She said: “There is still an apprehension around that. But it gives us another platform of how to move forward.” 

SBG has also created an inclusion council which will be responsible for setting targets for the business and acting as allies to employees. 

Starling said: “SBG started with not just good intentions but purpose – a purpose to create both genuine change in the organisation and look at how it can challenge the industry. I think it’s on track to become a real beacon of what is possible within financial services in relation to diversity, equity, and inclusion.” 

 

Listen to the podcast [39.55] hosted by Bharat Sagar, ambassador of AE3 Media featuring guests Michelle Golunksa, chief executive of Sesame Bankhall Group and Frank Starling, chief executive of Variety Pack

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