‘Regardless of your background, there shouldn’t be a glass ceiling’ – Seal

Speaking in a fireside chat for Pride month, Bluestone Mortgages’ CEO Steve Seal (pictured), said that the company “supports diversity and inclusivity in all of its forms” and wanted the company to be a place where “everybody feels comfortable, regardless of their background or circumstances to work”.

“That’s a process and a journey that I think the business and the people in it need to go on,” he said.

Seal said that Charlotte Nichol, management accountant at Bluestone Mortgages, was championing their diversity and inclusion initiatives, such as colleague forums.

“I think one of the things we lack in the business is data. In terms of just understanding where the gaps are and how diverse is the business that we kind of currently operate in.

“It is also understanding who are the people that we work around and what can we do to create an environment that those people feel 100 per cent comfortable, engaged, supported and valued in this business,” he noted.

Seal said that there would be an employee engagement survey which would act as a benchmark for it to act upon. The survey is anonymous and confidential.

He said that he wanted his employees to understand that being from a minority group he could understand and empathise with people from “all sorts of different backgrounds” and could comprehend the “challenges” that come with being from a minority.

“I think it’s important to show that regardless of your background there shouldn’t be a glass ceiling. I think whatever your personal circumstances, if you want to, there are opportunities in this business to move forwardand certainly in the mortgage sector.

“We see people on industry stages now picking up awards who are openly gay, and you would have never seen that happen 10 to 20 years ago and that’s a really positive change, but nobody should be nervous about being open and transparent about who they are.”

Being out in the industry was a ‘slow process’

Seal said that he “definitely wasn’t open” from the start of his career close to 30 years ago about being a gay man.

“When I first started working in the industry, I certainly wasn’t comfortable at that time to be open. You’d use non-gender specific terms to talk about your partner, so you weren’t necessarily hiding but you weren’t being transparent about who you were in your life and your circumstances.

“It was definitely a slow process to get to the point where I was comfortable to be open,” he said.

When asked what made him feel more comfortable being open, he said that it was meeting people in the industry who became good friends, so you could be “more open and trust people”.

He added that a key turning point was getting married in 2006 and that was a “catalyst” to being “very open and honest”.

“I’ve never looked back to be honest,” Seal added.

Coming out to new people can have ‘element of fear’

Seal said that he hadn’t faced any hostility, but part of that was due to not being open at the start of his career.

“You’re not facing hostility because you are lying or hiding who you are so that creates a protective barrier from any kind of hostility from people,” said.

He continued that today as a gay person talking to someone for the first time there is “always an element of fear” as you have to “come out” to them.

“There is heteronormalising as nobody ever has to come out about being straight, but you always have to come out about being gay.”

“There is a point in a conversation where there is that moment of realisation where you’re admitting that you’re not a straight white male with a wife and 2.4 kids. That is a challenge that still exists today in society that we still have to do that.”

“It’s still an issue. It’s still a barrier. It’s still something we kind of have to overcome.”

Seal said that it was “not my responsibility to manage their reactions” but you are “always fearful of what those actions are going to be”.

“Discrimination can come in many, many forms and a lot of it is very subtle. Even things about a look or a comment or an expression or anything. They can be really subtle things but actually quite hurtful, painful and difficult.”

He said that a lot of the time it was people making “perfectly innocent and honest assumptions” that he didn’t take offence at.

Many still don’t see D&I as a ‘priority or important to them’

Seal praised the Diversity and Inclusivity Finance Forum as a safe space where a “whole range of topics can be discussed in a very open and honest way” and where people have the opportunity to “learn and understand how they can be more empathetic to people in different situations and from different backgrounds”.

“I think until we until get to the point where equality and diversity is no longer a conversation then absolutely more needs to be done.”

He pointed to an example of going to a conference earlier this year and when it came to diversity and inclusion session then half of the audience got up and left.

“Now, I don’t think that means that those people disagreed with the agenda. I just don’t think they saw it as a priority or important to them.”

Seal said that getting people to participate was important, but it was vital it was done in a “cohesive way so that it works well for all parties and doesn’t start to trip over itself”.

He said that participation would be a “gradual process” and events, communication and constant reinforcement people would come on board.

“I don’t think you can try and force it, that will be a negative more than a positive.”