Speaking on the June Diversity and Inclusivity Finance Forum (DIFF) podcast, Lloyd-Hayward, group chief operating officer at the firm, said it seemed as though “boundaries are free for people”.
He added: “Suddenly there’s this barrier that doesn’t exist if you want to ask someone because of pure intrigue and people feel a right to ask.”
This was in response to Hannah Oades, key account manager at United Trust Bank (UTB), recounting someone asking about her relationship at a work event.
She said people often asked about her partner, assuming her partner would be a man, and would tell her she “didn’t look like a lesbian”, when finding out that her partner was female.
Oades also had people ask her how she and her partner had sex.
She said: “I would never ask a couple ‘how do you have sex?’ Because there’s a lot of curiousity or lack of awareness or education, people seem to be particularly interested in that area and I just think that’s crazy.”
Lloyd-Hayward said he also had an experience at an industry event, where a comedian joked that his mother had given up looking for a woman to arrange a marriage with and was now looking for a man.
An attendee at Lloyd-Hayward’s table said: “That’s the problem with gay people, they always make it about themselves.”
Fortunately, the table host called this person out and told them it was not an appropriate thing to say. Lloyd-Hayward then asked if the person did not want him on the table as a gay man himself.
“At which point, the guest was quite humbly apologising but the point had been made,” Lloyd-Hayward said.
He also spoke of a friend who went to a mortgage adviser, who was asked about his and his partner’s income.
When Lloyd-Hayward’s friend said he was married to a man, the mortgage broker said: “I assume you’re the man in the relationship and have the higher salary.”
Lloyd-Hayward said the comment was both homophobic and misogynistic.
Workplace inclusion
Speaking about how they engage with company efforts to raise awareness and potential pinkwashing, Lloyd-Hayward said how he interacts with firms was dependent on what LGBTQ+ policies they had in place.
Pinkwashing is when firms announce that they are LGBTQ+ friendly, but this is not replicated within the company culture.
He added: “Hannah and I are fortunate that our businesses have an open and honest culture where you can be truly who you are. Other businesses don’t have that or certainly have got some way to go to becoming more inclusive and supportive of staff.”
Lloyd-Hayward said that was why he did not feel the need to ask his CEO to add rainbows to the company logo during Pride month, for example, because “our focus is much more about the culture we create where people can be whoever they are and be supported in their endeavours”.
He said some businesses also saw this as an easy way out to say they cared about certain issues.
Oades had a different opinion to Lloyd-Hayward and said she was “appreciative” that companies were recognising Pride and in support of the movement.
“Perhaps it leaves room for improvement but I am pleased that they at least recognise it and raise awareness, which is a starting point. It’s a journey for everybody,” she added.
Always progressing
Discussing the importance of companies being inclusive, Oades said it was important to put policies in place, particularly for future generations. She said millennials and gen Z “deeply care about inclusivity and about having a comfortable, and diverse workplace with equal rights.”
She said UTB was embracing this with a policy to cover all kinds of parental leave as the wording was broad and inclusive. It includes terms such as carers, biological parents, adopters, mothers, husband or partner of a father or adopting couple, which Oades said “covers every scenario”.
Oades said UTB was not the biggest company in the world, it was still learning and had not come across all scenarios yet but the firm still “make it open and they make it fair”
Lloyd-Hayward said representation matters and said he should probably be more forgiving towards companies as “all progress matters”.
He said he was in the process of adoption, which Brightstar was being supportive of, but the government policy was still not completely inclusive.
“In terms of same sex partners adopting, one has to take official adoption leave and one has to take paternity leave. So, by definition, one is regarded as a mother, and one is regarded a father – as much as they’re trying to move terminology.
“And in terms of the placement leave on the adoption side of things, one is designated the main [adopter] and is allowed time off work, the adopter’s partner has to take unpaid time off.”
He said the government needed to create true equity as not all companies would offer consistent and fair parental leave policies.
Lloyd-Hayward said only one in eight companies record the LGBT pay gap, and from what is recorded there is currently a 16 per cent gap.
He said more companies needed to address this as “what gets measured gets done.”
Lloyd-Hayward said on any issue, people should look information up on the internet, read books by LGBTQ authors, or visit the Stonewall website and see what practices can be brought into a workplace.
He added: “Just try and educate yourself and share this with others and talk to people to just try and keep on moving progress in the right direction”.
Oades said it was about listening and keeping an open mind, as well as learning when you come across scenarios you do not understand.
Listen to the full podcast [29:26] hosted by Luke Beisiegel, events assistant at AE3 Media, featuring William Lloyd-Hayward, group chief operating officer at Brightstar Financial and Hannah Oades, key account manager at United Trust Bank (UTB).
