Speaking on the July Diversity and Inclusivity Finance Forum (DIFF) podcast about the role white women have in the mortgage sector, Kate Davies, executive director of Intermediary Mortgage Lenders Association (IMLA) and Ali Crossley, managing director for distribution at Legal and General Retail reacted to findings from a recent Association of Mortgage Intermediaries (AMI) report on representation in the industry.
The report found that despite being less likely to feel that the mortgage sector was representative, people from ethnic minority backgrounds felt the profession offered opportunities to succeed.
Crossley said it was “fantastic” that people from ethnic minority groups were taking on leadership roles.
She said this could be the case either because of their work ethic and risk-taking attitude or because they were not getting roles in the businesses they wanted to work for.
“It’s brilliant if that’s what they’re doing. What wouldn’t be brilliant is if the reason they’re doing that is because they can’t get a role within large organisations or any size… more credit to anybody who’s running their own business. I think that’s very brave to do and great to see,” Crossley added.
Davies said what was “disturbing” about the AMI report was that “people who wanted to be part of a firm, to be employed, were finding they were being passed over and they weren’t making the progress they felt they deserved. So, they felt they had to leave and that’s unfortunate.
“That’s the negative side of that coin but I wish them every success,” Davies added.
Acknowledging privilege
When asked if as white women in the mortgage sector, they ever felt they had an advantage over people from other backgrounds, Crossley said she did not initially notice that she might have had an upper hand as she felt she had her own obstacles due to being a mother, and living far from her workplace.
This changed when she started focusing on diversity and inclusion (D&I).
She said: “Now that I am working on D&I, I can absolutely see that it is easier for me, it has been easier for me to progress than it has been and is for women of colour. So I do recognise that there is some privilege, but I’ve always felt that it’s actually been quite a struggle in spite of that but I recognise that it’s harder for others.”
Davies said when she started working, both in local government and later when she joined the mortgage sector, she did not notice being preferred over anyone because “there simply were no women of colour coming through at that level” and people from ethnic minority groups tended to be in support roles.
Davies said it may also an age thing as the demographics of the school and university she attended, which was very white, had changed over time.
She said with the generation coming through, there should be more diversity and opportunities to be more equal.
While Davies did not notice her privilege at work, she said she was aware of it on a social level. For example, there was a Zimbabwean woman who cared for her mother and did not seem to get respect until Davies introduced her and her achievements. Davies also worked alongside a secretary who said she did not drink in the evenings as she always got stopped by police.
“I have once or twice been stopped by the police because I jumped a red light or I’d driven off without my headlights on, and they were always incredibly polite and courteous… I think it would have been very different if I had been in her place,” Davies said.
Crossley said there were still not many women or men of colour in the sector and said a focus needed to be on driving applications from people from different backgrounds.
She said there needed to be a balanced selection panel too, so it was not just white men making the hiring decisions.
Being an ally
Crossley said it became easier for her to be an ally the further she got in her career and said it was a “duty” to be an ally and “pay it forward”.
Davies said it was slightly different for her as she did not have employees and said she hoped people regarded her as a role model, especially when it comes to mentoring.
Crossley said progress had been made in the sector in relation to the representation of people from ethnic minority backgrounds, but more needed to be done. She said for the first time in its annual report, Legal and General had committed to increasing ethnicity representation across its workforce to 17 per cent by 2025.
She said this was an “ambitious target” which was higher than any other insurance firm and this was deliberate.
Davies said from the perspective of someone who was “one step removed” from the sector, progress had not gone far enough.
“I think it will change, it needs to change, because as a service sector… we’re serving customers ultimately and customers come in all shapes and sizes, and colours and backgrounds. If we’re not reflecting customers, customers will walk and go elsewhere,” Davies added.
She said she expected to see a “big change” in the next 10 to 20 years.
Listen to the full episode [29:38] hosted by Shekina Tuahene, commercial editor at Mortgage Solutions and featuring Kate Davies, executive director of IMLA and Ali Crossley, managing director for distribution at Legal and General Retail.
